I’ve mentioned Thinky Games a number of times here, most recently highlighting their upcoming Thinky Direct on Thursday, May 29th at 6pm BST / 10am PDT / 1pm EDT. I had the opportunity to interview Joseph Mansfield, Manager and Thinky Games and Rachel Watts, Editor at Thinky Games. What this turned into (which I loved) was three people nerding out about puzzles and gaming. Yes, I asked some questions here and there, but this definitely became more just a conversation than anything else. I had a lot of fun talking with both of them, enjoy!
This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity
How joseph and rachel got into puzzle games
Thanks for taking the time! Obviously, you guys are as crazy about puzzle games and narrative mystery games as I am. What was the game that made you realize you loved this?
Joseph: Oh, that’s a good question. Rachel, do you wanna do that one first?
Rachel: Yes! So, for me it was the Professor Layton series. That was the series! And the thing about Professor Layton is, it’s not just one kind of puzzle, it was all kinds. But ultimately, I just like the variation. I like a narrative. When I play a puzzle game, I’m looking for a narrative. I don’t do too many where it’s like one after another.
Joseph: I play lots of those!
Rachel: Yes! That’s really interesting about me and Joe. [Joseph] is definitely a generalist. But in terms of thinky games we like, I do think you’re more hardcore.
Joseph: I’m willing to play those abstract, narrative-less, mathy games as well. We spoke about this the other day. It’s cool that we have a community that has both of those kinds of games in it, not just the narrative games. But also, the kind of abstract logic games. Rachel, when you first got into the Layton games, what were you playing it on?
Rachel: [Nintendo] DS. Whatever the first one came out on, I’m pretty sure it was DS. I fell in love instantly. When I was younger, I wasn’t really a puzzle person. But I think playing Professor Layton I was like “it’s so accessible”. Also, in terms of difficulty as well. It just kind of made me realize that just because a game is a puzzle game, it doesn’t equate to it being difficult. Which I think is something our website really wants to get across. I think that is a bit of a misconception “Thinky games, puzzle games are for people who are smart”. And they’re not. They’re literally for everyone.
wHAT DOES THINKY MEAN?
Joseph: I think some people have said that about the name “Thinky”. It’s meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, not meant to be like “you gotta be super smart to play these games”. It’s playful, gets your brain whirring, scratching your head, it’s thinky. So, I did play a bunch of puzzle games when I was younger. On the Dreamcast, I loved ChuChu Rocket! where you could make your own puzzles as well. And I love chess games when I was younger.
J: But then I had a long period where I wasn’t really playing anything. The games that got me into the thinky space, it was around 2016 when games like The Witness, Stephen’s Sausage Roll, Snakebird, Cosmic Express. These are the ones that I mention as my gateway to the thinky space. Since then, like Rachel said, I ‘ve become more of a generalist in terms of the space. So, I love more of the detective-y games, mystery games like Blue Prince. I’m playing that at the moment.
tHERE’S A SOLID 15-20 MINUTES OF THIS WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT BLUE PRINCE, BUT LET’S TALK ABOUT How thinky games got going
So, how did you get started with Thinky Games? Was it a thing where you were like, “I know there’s like-minded people and I want to compile it all together? Or was it “I love this, and I’m going to talk about it”?
Joseph: So, I guess I’ll start there since I joined the community first and then Rachel joined later. The Thinky Games community existed before the Thinky Games website. There was already a community of Discord of people talking about these games. And it was around that time that I mentioned, around 2015-2016 that it started with people playing The Witness, Stephen’s Sausage Roll. Do you know about Stephen’s Sausage Roll?
Nah, this is the first time I’m hearing about it
J: So, it’s got a silly name. It’s a Sokoban game, so you’re on a grid ushing blocks around. But the blocks are sausages, and you have a fork, you have to swing your fork around to push the sausages to grill them. You win a puzzle when all of the sausages are perfectly grilled on both sides. [laughs] It sounds insane but it’s an amazing game. And that game just brought in a load of people who were like “they’re tough but they’re also very logical”. The tricky thing with Stephen’s Sausage Roll is that it begins difficult and it ends difficult. It never gets easier. But if you push through that difficulty at the beginning, I think it’s really satisfying to go through it.
Getting the site going
J: I mentioned this to Rachel the other day, when I finished Stephen’s Sausage Roll, I immediately went back to the beginning and played it again. I knew how it felt to start it for the first time; it was so difficult. But I went back, and I suddenly understand this and know how to think about this. And that was fascinating. Fast forward a few years, I think 2022. There’s an organization called the Carina Initiative. They were funding all sorts of amazing projects. And many of them in the kind of puzzly, thinky, logic, math space. And basically, I was interested in starting a website about Thinky Games. Because we had this community that was very insular, the only way you could find out about this game was joining this Discord or following the right people on socials. I was thinking it would be great to be a bit more outward facing, to tell the world about these games.
J: So, I pitched that to the Carina Initiative. It just so happened that they were working on that at the same time. And so, they brought me on to help launch the website. We launched in 2022, I think. And since then, the goal has been to grow the community through our database where people can search for games. It just helps people notice that these games exist because otherwise, they would go severely unnoticed. Since we’ve launched the site, we’ve done various things like the database, our Thinky Awards, we run an event for developers called the ThinkyCon as well, which is where we talk about how to make these games and how to design puzzles. At some point, we grew the team, and we hired Rachel to join us. Do you want to talk about how you got involved?
Rachel’s entry to thinky games
Rachel: Yes! So, I joined in May 2024. [Joseph] heard me on my podcast called Indieventure, i think I was talking about a puzzle game. The you reached out to me — as a freelancer, I’m always looking for cool stuff to do —I joined the team. And the website was in an ok shape, but it wasn’t streamlined. There wasn’t content coming out. And so, my job was to come in and make sure the website was producing content, that we had a good pool of freelancers. Basically, make our voice more authoritative in the editorial space. And part of that was just like Joe was saying, highlighting games that a lot of times go overlooked. A big part of me as a journalist, is [I] love the indie space and puzzle games are probably one of the most “indie-est” spaces that you can get. Just in terms of who’s making them and the kind of conversations between fans and developers. And everyone’s sharing games and information. It’s really cool.
R: So, part of the website when I was brought on was very much, we are highlighting these games. But also, we are supporting our community, we’re highlighting interesting indie games that don’t normally get the spotlight, and we’re breaking pre-conceptions about what people think “thinky games” are. And that they are for everyone and not just people are at Oxford and Cambridge.
Thinky means more than just puzzles
J: Something I want to highlight as well is that there’s a reason that we use the term “Thinky” and not just “puzzle”. because in terms of that broadness, we also are fans of strategic, tactical games. Into the Breach is a huge one for the community and that’s a tactics game. One of the things I’ve loved when people have given feedback to us is “I loved Into the Breach, or I loved Return of the Obra Dinn“. They almost didn’t realize there was a category that they all fit inside. And we’ve given it a name which is Thinky Games. It’s nice to give a word to people like “oh I like all these games, I can now just say ‘Thinky Games’”.
THe thinky direct (after a huge nerd out session)
Before we go, I got so wrapped up in this, I forgot to actually be a journalist. Let’s talk about the Thinky Direct!
Joseph and Rachel: [Laughs]
J: So, it’s happening May 29th. It’s our answer to Nintendo Direct, Wholesome Direct, etc. But we’re doing it for thinky games. We’ve got loads of exclusive trailers, announcements and things. Rachel and I have already seen it all, but we won’t saying anything just yet. And we’re hosting the event, probably be super awkward. Were we that awkward Rachel? [laughs]
R: No, we were great! I think that the games are good. I think that’s what I’m really excited about. Again, the Thinky Direct is another way for us to really highlight games that get overlooked. And I think at the moment, with indie games, that is vital. Discoverability for any sort of developer is really tough. So, from our community’s perspective, having a Direct seemed like the next logical way to spotlight these [games]. A lot of the times — small teams, solo devs — even if we’re talking about Wholesome and Nintendo, there’s no way they’re gonna get their trailer shown in that a lot of the time. So, this is our way of being like we have space for you, we’re holding space for you. Please join us in celebrating these games, they’re great”. I’m so excited for the Thinky Direct. We have some really great games to show everyone!
I appreciate your time! I like nerding out with people who like stuff I like.
R: Oh my god, if you want Blue Prince chat! Us three will chat Blue Prince!
J: Geniunely, I’d love to do stuff like this.
J and R: Thank You! Bye!
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